It has high levels of chromium and carbon, making it extremely resistant to corrosion. Heat treatment and edge geometry can mean more for knife performance than the specific steel used in the knife. Non-stainless steels can be heat treated to 66 Rc or even higher depending on the particular steel. CPM 10V Sorry about the misinformation. But its very cheap, and, when ground appropriately, it can be a real winner from a value standpoint. second it might be of importance which way you sharpened because if against the edge the steels might have reacted differently to the contamination remaining on the edge. Would love to see where S7 sits on the Corrosion/Edge/Toughness meter. and get better and longer-lasting performance? The ratings in this article rate ease of sharpening primarily based on wear resistance, but if a knife is difficult to sharpen, there may be other factors in play. Vanax gives up some toughness and hardness vs MagnaCut for saltwater levels of corrosion resistance. The benefit of this, of course, is that the steel holds an edge for a very, very long time. the problem is in the innumerable combinations of grades, grains sizes and coatings available. Ive seen more talk and some articles regarding the use of AI to come up with new potential drug molecules, polymeric materials, etc. High alloy tool steels are designed to be air hardening, so they can be cooled even slower than the oil hardening steels found above. Must-Have Bowie Knives for Your Collection, What is Micarta and What Makes It a Great Knife Handle, Top 8 Reasons Why Knives Make the Best Gifts, Pocket Clips: Carry Safely and Comfortably, Make a Knife Your Own with Accessories & Customization. After the steel is quenched it is reheated to a lower temperature to increase toughness and decrease hardness. 14C28N knives will handle challenging and demanding applications without chipping, cracking, or breaking. The choice between the two depends on your knife needs. In my experience, it will tarnish and discolor quickly. we dont know. Its very tough and exceptionally corrosion-resistant. I know that one does not normally make knife blades of titanium, but I gather that Ti is extremely corrosion resistant, used for saltwater applications, etc. just recently the idea occured tome to sharpen a planer blade like a knife and check out how it performs. Vancron has a very fine microstructure so it would be tough to beat. Knifemakers use dozens of steel types to create knife blades. In its most basic form, steel is just iron and carbon, but people have been studying, experimenting with, and perfecting steel with other elements for specific applications for millennia. I was recommended the Rat 1 in D2 and I also found that I really like the design of the Ruike p135 and p128. Choose a factor below to start sorting. Reddit and its partners use cookies and similar technologies to provide you with a better experience. However, there are other factors. Most of the user loves this one that has received a lot of attention on this site. How long sharpen? Is it similar but worse or better at one of the 3 things? Both steels are popular among knife manufacturers and both have their strengths and weaknesses. 440C steel Below shows the results of MagnaCut testing vs other steels where it is labeled as New Steel.. It improves wear resistance and hardenability. A quick check shows the compositions of these steels are nearly identical, so based on that Id expect them to perform similarly (differences in heat treat and blade geometry aside). An example of data being processed may be a unique identifier stored in a cookie. Rex 121 23.5% vanadium carbide, 4% molybdenum/tungsten carbide (M6C), Conventional Ingot vs Powder Metallurgy Carbide Structure. Crucible intends SPY27 to be good all-around knife steel. D2 will go through a lot more rope at 58-59 hard than AEB-L will at 64 hard. 440A Rowens heat treat on ESEE knives that use 1095 is exceptional; KA-BARs is less so. We and our partners use cookies to Store and/or access information on a device. These steels are the good old hard-working steels. 1.4116 Theres also a line of green triangles a bit below that. Thanks for the Article Larrin, But unlike most high-end steels, SPY27 is an easily user-serviceable powder steel. Alpha Knife Supply sells 26C3 btw. Also, if you want a fishing knife, 14c28n steel will survive better in wet areas than D2. Give it a couple of weeks, and feedback will start pouring in. And Ive done a lot of experimental work on knife steels where I feel more confident in my own ratings. For example, the Si space is blank for several of the carbon steels because they have a relatively wide acceptable range, not because the element isnt added. Its high hardness and relatively high toughness also make it an excellent choice in cutlery. The Vargo Sobata 398 is unlike any other knife on this list. If you want a sharp knife for outdoor or indoor use, D2 knives will not disappoint you. worldwide, even the chinese have an equivalent (8cr13mov). This is an American-made powder steel produced by Crucible and developed specifically for knives with the aid of the knife guru Chris Reeve (maker of the vaunted Sebenza, among other gems). The biggest change that is seen with powder metallurgy in measured properties is in regards to toughness. In fact, its not technically a steel at all, as it uses titanium and nickel. Hes already done a three part series on cryogenic treatment: So we get back to my original question: if a D2 planer blade at 58 Rc and the associated level of toughness will perform acceptably with a 30 sharpening angle, is there some way to extrapolate at what sharpening angle another steel with higher toughness might perform equally well? Hi there, As such, the performance of the steel is entirely dependent upon the steels being utilized. Other factors that can be added in are corrosion resistance, hardness, and cost. On the other hand, 9cr18mov has a slightly higher molybdenum content which gives it higher hardness from quenching and helps drive carbide formation. Thanks to powder metallurgy, youll find even better edge retention on the high end. These steels have sufficient toughness to handle thinner edge geometry. the more complex fracture toughness at least lets you make some estimates in this sence. Poor availability may effectively increase cost of steel. Corrosion Resistance: D2 steel has a higher chromium content than 8Cr13MoV, which makes it better at resisting corrosion and wear. i understand the samples were treated in the same way. My name is Jonathan M, and Im a passionate Mechanical Engineer, a knife enthusiast, and the author of this website. The best knife for you should meet your needs and fit your budget. In particular, I really care about the toughness / hardness part. Steel with high wear resistance is more costly to manufacture, as the knife company goes through more abrasives to grind the knives. These steels offer a great balance of characteristics that work well, from big choppers to thin slicers. Theyre excellent for choppers, hard-use folders, and outdoor knives that see impacts and heavy use when used at medium hardness. As of November 2020, this is Spyderco-exclusive steel. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in. Thank you. I wrote an article about knife steel ratings available online in 2018, where I concluded that none of them were very good. 20? Poor heat treatment can make a knife too hard, too soft, hard to sharpen, easy to deform, or cause other issues. Steel is a combination of iron and carbon with other elements. D2 steel does not contain enough chromium to make it stainless steel. However, I would argue that pure material removal is usually not the limiting step for ease in sharpening. a burr might have developped on some of the steels and not on others, it might have ben reduced or even removed by the process. And a label: AEB-L. Both knives come at an affordable price for high-end knives. s30v This is basically a retrofit of a very old steel, adding more carbon to the recipe of 420 (hence the HC for high carbon). 14C28N vs. D2. Elmax This is a non-powder Japanese steel used primarily in Spyderco knives. CPM 4V By rejecting non-essential cookies, Reddit may still use certain cookies to ensure the proper functionality of our platform. There are significant differences between them because 14C28N is stainless steel, while D2 steel is a semi-stainless tool steel. We use a subsize, unnotched chapy test with 2.5 x 10 x 55 mm dimensions. These are Chinese-produced steels that recently started showing up in Chinese-made knives. It is an upgrade of 12C27, and 13C26 steel initially used to make blades for shaving razors. I have a couple questions, not directly related to this specific post, that I wanted to ask publically so that others could find your responses as well, so here seemed as good a place as any. This is one of the fundamental tradeoffs in steel. S110V has improved corrosion resistance at the cost of some toughness compared to S90V. Because of the material difference, the blades differ in toughness, edge retention, corrosion resistance, and ease of sharpening. And for high toughness you want little or no carbide. The most traditional models of pocket knives have different parts, such as the handle and cutting performance. Its a costly and challenging process, but it makes extremely fine-grained steels, some of the best for knives, and makes some processes that were previously impossible a reality. The main downside is the steel is more difficult to heat treat and can't go harder than about 60 or perhaps 61 Rc. But the true calling card of INFI is its insane toughness. looking at getting a nice larger flipper for a little under 100 AUD. Thats a tiny difference, but in combination with the 420HC disparity, it conceals a full point difference between 420HC and 440A: 7.6 vs. 8.6. also the angle is by far the most important factor in catra testing, so such results might be irrelevant. When describing the characteristics of a steel, a few common attributes are commonly talked about. 14C28N is the highest-selling steel of Sandvik, a Swedish steel company. You said wood is not a particularly abrasive material and in absolute terms that is very true. Is that accurate? It doesnt hold an edge well, but its so easy to sharpen that you can get it back to razor sharpness in a few minutes. And Mn and Si isnt shown at all for the high alloy steels, even though those elements are added to all of them. One of the more common stainless steels, and one readily available in lots of different places worldwide, AUS-8 is a decent all-around steel. Developed by New Jersey Steel Baron, Nitro V is a non-powder steel marketed as an enhanced version of AEB-L. Nitro V, as its name indicates, adds nitrogen to AEB-Ls formula to make the steel even more corrosion-resistant. 7:00am-5:00pm, 10am-7pm Tuesday - Friday However, high wear resistance means that abrasives are used up more rapidly, more careful grinding is necessary to avoid overheating, finishing and polishing is much more time consuming, etc. Are you okay with that? I especially appreciate the geometry/edge retention/toughness comparison with photos. But SM100 is not widely available, hard to heat treat and grind, and exceptionally expensive. So youre right that a D2 blade will cut more CATRA cards than an AEB-L blade *when theyre both sharpened to the same angle* but AEB-L has much better toughness and can therefore handle being sharpened to a more acute angle without chipping, and a more acute angle is more important to continuing cutting ability than wear resistance is. One such person is Dr. Larrin Thomas, a professional metallurgist raised by a knife maker and a giant knife nerd. This makes it a great choice if you don't have . Toughness is a measure of how much resistance a steel has to fracturing. It is among the steel knives with exceptional toughness while maintaining excellent corrosion resistance. The reason is because sharpening and edge geometry will also greatly control properties. 14C28N Leek: D2 Leek: jonnymac44 Joined Sep 27, 2007 Messages 7,674 Oct 21, 2008 #2 Hey Michael, First off, the new 14C28N from Sandvik is just now hitting the streets, and I don't have any results just yet for you. Some steels are cooked up specifically with this in mind and are very difficult to make rust. Stainless steels are more resistant to corrosion but remember that stainless steels stain less, and most of them will still rust in the right conditions. D2 steel also resists chipping better than most stainless steel types. Check out theGiantMouse Vox/Anso ACE Iona Liner Lock Knife at $99, for example. Its very similar chemically to RWL 34 and ATS-34. I personally don`t care about stainless (sic! Another is that 8Cr13MoV is a generic name for a specific composition while AUS-8 is a name of a product by a specific company. I like it in the Seki City Spydercos, but I would like to know what ratings you would give it. in the correct place for the stainless-toughness-edge-retention graphic? 2) you do not go into the sharpening in much detail. 14C28N knives offer excellent corrosion resistance and toughness. Display: 24 per page Sort by: Featured View CIVIVI Voltaic Flipper Knife Stainless Steel Handle With Micarta Inlay (3.48" 14C28N Blade) $88.30 Add to cart I test corrosion resistance of steels by heat treating 1 x 1.5 inch coupons, finishing to about 400 grit, and then spraying with water. Most of these steels are carbon steels, except for CPM MagnaCut (the fancy steel cooked up specifically for knives by Dr. Thomas), which has excellent corrosion resistance. Its probably in between Vanadis 8 and 10V. The 1.4116 I tested has large carbides in it which is presumably the reason for low measured toughness: https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/05/26/new-micrographs-of-42-knife-steels/. I love reading through all the data youve gathered and making note of all the trends (Im a physical organic chemist). The 10V specimens tempered at 1000F were 4-5 ft-lbs while the specimens tempered at 4-500F were 7-8 ft-lbs. Or, is this perhaps a historically useful practice that made sense on softer/less tough steels, but would make less sense on some newer steels that can be used at higher hardness and thus higher edge stability? Though technically not a stainless steel at least 14% chromium, and D2 usually has 12% its relatively corrosion-resistant. Anyway, astute comment, but edge retention does mean a lot in woodworking. AEB-L and 14C28N are the best in the high toughness group. drop point Most edge retention tests isolate wear resistance or how long it takes abrasives to dull your edge in whatever youre cutting. Maxamets hardness results in incredible edge retention and a nightmarish sharpening and machining experience. In that case the difficulty in sharpening would be the inverse of the edge retention rating. 14C28N is essentially AEB-L (or perhaps more accurately Sandvik 13C26), but with improved corrosion resistance. I have a Spyderco K390 knife and I cut leather with it as it is only .090 thick and I seldom have to strop it on 1 micron diamond compound on leather. No mainstream companies use SM100, and the niche makers that do usually charge more than $1,000 for knives with SM100 blades. Thank you for the accurate data. However, the 14c28n provides perfect edge retention with a maximum hardness of 62Hrc and the mixture of Chromium and Carbon. They have many similarities, including their high hardness, strength, and wear resistance. You can read about my CATRA edge retention testing in this article. The steel loses some of the chromium in solution for corrosion resistance to form these fine carbides for hardness. In general, higher carbon steels have higher edge retention but lower toughness. Advantages: Toughness, edge retention. So, it is quite harder than most other steel variants and retains its edge sharp for a long period. Below, weve listed some of the attributes you might want out of your steel and given some examples in both the more expensive powder metallurgy steels and more affordable conventionally produced steels. So for most steels they are given a rating at around 59-62 Rc, apart from a few steels that are never used at that hardness. The most balanced is CPM-MagnaCut which is in an area all by itself on the chart. I have a (relatively) short introduction before getting into the ratings with a few important things to put them into context. Anthony Sculimbrene authors the blog EverydayCommentary.com. Since the heat treatment is done before you get your knife, and its impossible to tell how good the heat treatment is with your eye, you often must rely on the manufacturers reputation for a good heat treat. https://knifesteelnerds.com/2018/12/17/cryogenic-processing-of-steel-part-3/. Why do knives make the best gifts? Thanks to its very high hardness (64-66 HRc compared to the average of 58-62 HRc), ZDP-189 can be ground thinner and sharpened less often. You cannot leave your 14C28N knives in water overnight and expect them not to rust. 14C28N knife will dull faster, but it is easy to sharpen. Some of our partners may process your data as a part of their legitimate business interest without asking for consent. The big difference in properties vs the low alloy steels, however, are the harder carbides that are found in these steels. It wont hang long with high-end powder metal steels(a method of making steel using ultra-pure micrograins of steel that are heated and pressed together). Generally seen as a slight upgrade to the 440C/VG-10/ATS-34 caliber of steel, its a decent all-around steel with good corrosion resistance, decent toughness, and only modest hardness. Did you change the estimate based on more testing? There was significant sharpness loss with 1095, almost none with 440A, and D2 was in between. Here, we will discuss edge retention, toughness, ease of sharpening, and corrosion resistance. I am just grasping at straws here, but from the data you shared, it seems like toughness does increase faster than edge retention decreases: it is harder to get a very high edge retention knife that will still be somewhat tough compared to a very tough knife that will still hold an edge ok. CTS-204P and CPM-20CV are nearly identical steels made by other manufacturers. Old time 8670, 5160 (known to ignoramuses as 51shitty) and 52100 are excellent choices and arguably better choices than 80crv2. Which one is right for you? my understanding is that wood is not a particularly abrasive material and a plane is more of a push cut action than a slicing action so I would have though edge stability and sharpness is more important than edge retention meaning ABE-L should work pretty well. Tougher than D2, but less wear-resistant. D2 has been around for more than 20 years, an eternity in metallurgy terms. You will get an ultra-sharp edge with 14C28N knives. Then we could say, e.g. Plus the charts get messier, and I dont always have data for a wide range of hardness values. The D2, on the other hand, has a thicker and more durable blade that is better suited for tough tasks like chopping wood or prying open cans. However, it falls behind the Bohler steel in corrosion resistance. 8am-5pm Saturday. It will take you more time and energy to get a sharp edge, but your efforts will pay off because the blades hold the edge longer. If you're stuck between 14C28N and 440C, here's a breakdown of the pros and cons of each type of steel. I did a test with knives in 440A (stainless), D2 (high alloy steel with some corrosion resistance), and 1095 (no corrosion resistance). AEB-L The 14C28N, on the other hand, is tougher. But then if you look at an increase of 100 mm in the CATRA test from Maxamet to Rex 121 the toughness only drops 1-2 ft-lbs. 14C28N steel holds good hardness. Like 154CM, there is a newer version, S35VN, which shares many of the same attributes as S30V but is easier to craft into a knife thanks to niobium. Marco, BSc Chem. Blue Super and 1.2562 have higher edge retention but relatively low toughness. Lots of information is still specific to this article, however. This steel, as the name implies has a professional styling to it. Some steels are more difficult to manufacture for the steel company or have more expensive alloying elements so the cost is increased. Do honing steels as used on kitchen knives actually do anything useful? D2 holds it for longer. 420HC doesnt hold an edge well, but its relatively stain-resistant and tough. A lot of custom makers also like S110V, including the great RJ Martin. A2 is a tool steel renowned for toughness. Sandvik 14C28N steel is better than D2 steel in corrosion resistance and toughness. It isnt impossible, but contrast may not be very good and the austenitizing temperatures of the two steels arent very compatible. False treatment and geometry upheld by Made in USA is like buying 8Cr from China (except late A.G) My personal experience tops with Vanadis 4E, CPM-M4, RWL-34 and the likes. Therefore, if your priority is a knife with the best toughness on the market, you can never go wrong with the varieties of 14C28N. Its not a regression line, it is just a line through the best steels. On the other hand, these types of steel provide high wear resistance and toughness. have extremely high edge retention. Or even a 7 in both categories. 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Its OK to be a steel snob, but keep in mind that you dont have to if you want a good knife. 12C27 steel is extremely popular in the US knife market for its high hardness, high wear resistance, and great corrosion resistance. . This is a non-powder steel produced by American steel company Carpenter. Aluminum oxide is used in most common sharpening stones and it is softer than vanadium carbide, which makes sharpening high vanadium steels more difficult. That said, it's not as tough as many other steels and exponentially tougher to sharpen. Lets talk about the clip-on pocket knife. as you mentioned catra indicates the edge angle as being by far the most important variable. I have a bachelor's degree in Mechanical engineering with a specialization in material science. Short of purposeful abuse, its all but impossible to chip an edge on an INFI blade. Micarta This was not necessarily because of superior toughness but because of the superior strength of the MagnaCut from higher hardness. The steel is susceptible to overheating during hardening do not overheat. Also Mo additions improve corrosion resistance for a given amount of chromium. Water is a severe quenchant that can often lead to warping or cracking. Ease of sharpening refers to how difficult it is to remove material with a sharpening stone. 420HC, 420, and 5160 all offer off-the-charts toughness. Sandvik later came out with 14C28N which is a slightly improved version of 13C26. With recommended hardness range of 55-62 HRC; the 14C28N is great for knife applications which place very high demands on edge sharpness, edge stability and corrosion resistance such as chefs knives, hunting knife, pocket knives and fishing knives. Many steels are very similar to one another but go by different names from different manufacturers. I've heard d2 is miles better and i dont want to pay 90 for the p135 and get a significantly inferior blade to paying 110 for the D2 Rat. Furthermore, because of its ultrahigh hardness, Maxamet is very prone to corrosion, probably worse than 1095. 8cr13mov if proper slicing geometry its good budget steel if you dont rust it and no prying or screwing its ok cutting steel. Not as tough as the best carbon steels, it's tougher than most . But I think it would have much higher toughness than any of the steels on the chart. 0.62% of Carbon: Makes knives harder and more resistant. It mainly made for knife and it high in Chromium for excellent corrosion resistance. Phone Hours (MST) CROMOVA Anybody know how the Sandvik stacks up against all these other steels. W-2 Knife Steel Benefiting from 0.2 percent vanadium content, W-2 holds an edge well and is reasonably tough. Note that corrosion is detrimental for the cutting edge. It can dull your edge, cause pitting, and damage the structural integrity of your knife. However the 14c28n steel would be great for an EDC knife with typical usage. Heat treatment refers to the heating and cooling steps employed to achieve your knifes proper balance of attributes. This is the basis on which I do the ratings rather than a linear scale. They differ little in composition and treatment. Stainless steels are another subset of high alloy tool steels that have enough chromium in them to have stainless levels of corrosion resistance. Like S90V, its a high-hardness steel, but its more balanced than S90V. In other words, heat treating a steel to its maximum hardness does not necessarily mean reduced corrosion resistance. Im not sure they answer my question, though, and some of your points dont seem to jive with the info here on Larrins site. As with high alloy tool steels, the amount of vanadium can be a shortcut to predicting the general level of wear resistance and edge retention. Often used for combat knives. Ive not seen these used on non-kitchen knives, though, and it seems that if they had real utility they would be used in other knives as well although perhaps on the thinner edges of kitchen knives they are more effective than they would be elsewhere? then you have zirconia and diamond coated blades. https://cedric-ada-store.creator-spring.com/listing/brickard-heritage-collectionGood gravy its bricky on thingsSubscribe and hit the bell! 14C28N and D2 steel are not the same. Different heat treats have emerged over the years, but one has risen to the top as the best:Bob Doziers D2. Most production knives are more than thick enough at the edge to accommodate a regrind to significantly improve performance, and its a lot cheaper than buying a new knife a lot of the time. On the other hand, in d2 air-hardness steel, you cant differentially temper the blade-like other high carbon steel because the steel can also be challenging to sharpen. But to learn more about these and other attributes, read our related outdoor knife buyers guide. Hi Larrin, thanks so much for writing this blog and putting so much reliable information into such an accessible form. 14c28n steel has a high Chromium and Carbon percentage. Vg10 and cpms45vn same toughness at same hardness ? Working closely with our factory the heat treating of this steel has been perfected resulting in excellent performance for the price. We looked at common steels used by popular knife brands to help you select the right material for your blade. This is a midprice steel with matching performance. The highest edge retention steel was Rex 121 which was at 70 Rc in combination with lots of high hardness vanadium carbides.